It's Too Hot For EVs To Work Right

[Leroy N. Soetoro]

https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950

The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

We already knew electric vehicles don’t do so well when it gets really
cold outside. Well, apparently they don’t really like extreme heat either.
According to Automotive News, the recent heat wave across much of the
Southern and Western U.S. has brought their range issue to the forefront.

A Seattle-based EV battery and range analytics company called Recurrent
has reportedly tested thousands of vehicles in various weather conditions.
It found that many vehicles experienced “significant declines” in their
range as temperatures rose. Some apparently suffered a 31 percent drop
when temps got about 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That is less than ideal. At
cooler temperatures, the outlet reports that the range loss wasn’t as
high. There was an average of 5 percent reduction at 90 degrees and 2.8
percent at 80, so it’s definitely not linear.

Auto News says that in order to calculate these average temperatures,
Recurrent used a blend of data from the 17,000 vehicles the company keeps
track of. This data includes 65 EVs and plug-in hybrid models that include
mainstays like Tesla’s entire lineup, the Chevy Bolt EV, Hyundai Konda,
Nissan Leaf, Ford F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E.

Unfortunately, we don’t know which models did the worst in terms of range
loss. However, Recurrent did say that all four of Tesla’s vehicles had the
smallest range degradation, but they also had the widest gap between their
real-world range and the EPA’s estimates. Part of the reason for their
resistance to range loss may be because of their heat pumps, Recurrent’s
CEO Scott Case told AutoNews. They’re apparently much more efficient at
cooling than standard automotive air conditioners.

The outlet also spoke with Greg Less, the technical director of the
University of Michigan Battery Lab. He explained that range decline from
heat has its roots in battery chemistry.

“Once you’re above [104 degrees Fahrenheit] you start to have a breakdown
of the passive emission layer on the anode, and that breakdown will then
cause consumption of the liquid electrolyte, which will shorten the
lifetime of your battery,” Less told the outlet.

Luckily for EV owners, he doesn’t think the excessive heat will damage EV
batteries long term. That’s because they aren’t always driven in 100+
degree weather, and EVs have a fairly robust system to cool batteries.

From what Less says, it sounds like high temperatures aren’t the direct
cause of range degradation. It’s got more to do with the fact they use
more electricity to run stuff in that sort of weather.

“You’re running the fan harder, you’re running the refrigerant faster. All
of these things take more electricity,” Less said to Auto News. “So that’s
going to reduce the range.”
--
We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.

Durham Report: The FBI has an integrity problem. It has none.

No collusion - Special Counsel Robert Swan Mueller III, March 2019.
Officially made Nancy Pelosi a two-time impeachment loser.

Thank you for cleaning up the disaster of the 2008-2017 Obama / Biden
fiasco, President Trump.

Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp. Obama sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood
queer liberal democrat donors.

President Trump boosted the economy, reduced illegal invasions, appointed
dozens of judges and three SCOTUS justices.

[pothead]

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.
We already knew electric vehicles don’t do so well when it gets really
cold outside. Well, apparently they don’t really like extreme heat either.
According to Automotive News, the recent heat wave across much of the
Southern and Western U.S. has brought their range issue to the forefront.
A Seattle-based EV battery and range analytics company called Recurrent
has reportedly tested thousands of vehicles in various weather conditions.
It found that many vehicles experienced “significant declines” in their
range as temperatures rose. Some apparently suffered a 31 percent drop
when temps got about 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That is less than ideal. At
cooler temperatures, the outlet reports that the range loss wasn’t as
high. There was an average of 5 percent reduction at 90 degrees and 2.8
percent at 80, so it’s definitely not linear.
Auto News says that in order to calculate these average temperatures,
Recurrent used a blend of data from the 17,000 vehicles the company keeps
track of. This data includes 65 EVs and plug-in hybrid models that include
mainstays like Tesla’s entire lineup, the Chevy Bolt EV, Hyundai Konda,
Nissan Leaf, Ford F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E.
Unfortunately, we don’t know which models did the worst in terms of range
loss. However, Recurrent did say that all four of Tesla’s vehicles had the
smallest range degradation, but they also had the widest gap between their
real-world range and the EPA’s estimates. Part of the reason for their
resistance to range loss may be because of their heat pumps, Recurrent’s
CEO Scott Case told AutoNews. They’re apparently much more efficient at
cooling than standard automotive air conditioners.
The outlet also spoke with Greg Less, the technical director of the
University of Michigan Battery Lab. He explained that range decline from
heat has its roots in battery chemistry.
“Once you’re above [104 degrees Fahrenheit] you start to have a breakdown
of the passive emission layer on the anode, and that breakdown will then
cause consumption of the liquid electrolyte, which will shorten the
lifetime of your battery,” Less told the outlet.
Luckily for EV owners, he doesn’t think the excessive heat will damage EV
batteries long term. That’s because they aren’t always driven in 100+
degree weather, and EVs have a fairly robust system to cool batteries.
From what Less says, it sounds like high temperatures aren’t the direct
cause of range degradation. It’s got more to do with the fact they use
more electricity to run stuff in that sort of weather.
“You’re running the fan harder, you’re running the refrigerant faster. All
of these things take more electricity,” Less said to Auto News. “So that’s
going to reduce the range.”

That explains why I'm seeing many Tesla cars driving with windows open even though it's 100 degrees
outside.
Apparently you have to choose between roasting and getting to your destination.

[NoBody]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In other
words they're no good.

[pothead]

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In other
words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why even in what would be
considered a minor crash, the insurance companies are totaling the cars instead of repairing them.

[pothead]

Post by pothead

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In other
words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why even in what would be
considered a minor crash, the insurance companies are totaling the cars instead of repairing them.

An example.

A windshield replacement for a Toyota Camry cost between $250 and $300 plus about $50 for labor.

<https://getjerry.com/questions/how-much-does-a-toyota-camry-hybrid-windshield-replacement-cost->

A windshield replacement for a Tesla cost between $1000 and $2500

<https://www.getexoshield.com/blog/tesla-windshield-replacement-cost>

"What Makes Tesla Unique"

"One common complaint we heard was that many insurance companies will not work directly with Tesla
Service to cover the cost of repair or replacement of your glass. In this case, you may end up
having to pay out of pocket and submitting a claim with your insurer directly for reimbursement."

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

Post by pothead

Post by pothead

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In other
words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why even in what would be
considered a minor crash, the insurance companies are totaling the cars instead of repairing them.

An example.
A windshield replacement for a Toyota Camry cost between $250 and $300 plus about $50 for labor.
<https://getjerry.com/questions/how-much-does-a-toyota-camry-hybrid-windshield-replacement-cost->
A windshield replacement for a Tesla cost between $1000 and $2500
<https://www.getexoshield.com/blog/tesla-windshield-replacement-cost>
"What Makes Tesla Unique"
"One common complaint we heard was that many insurance companies will not work directly with Tesla
Service to cover the cost of repair or replacement of your glass. In this case, you may end up
having to pay out of pocket and submitting a claim with your insurer directly for reimbursement."

I just got a quote on a 2022 Tesla S for $785.00 from Safelite
AutoGlass. To be fair, the windshield has all sort of options on it
that the Camry most likekly doesn't have- Solar Coated, 3Rd Visor
Band, soundproofing, Rain/Light Sensor, Heated glass Wiper Park, Lane
Departure Warning System, so I'd expect it to be more.

[pothead]

Post by Klaus Schadenfreude

Post by pothead

Post by pothead

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In other
words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why even in what would be
considered a minor crash, the insurance companies are totaling the cars instead of repairing them.

An example.
A windshield replacement for a Toyota Camry cost between $250 and $300 plus about $50 for labor.
<https://getjerry.com/questions/how-much-does-a-toyota-camry-hybrid-windshield-replacement-cost->
A windshield replacement for a Tesla cost between $1000 and $2500
<https://www.getexoshield.com/blog/tesla-windshield-replacement-cost>
"What Makes Tesla Unique"
"One common complaint we heard was that many insurance companies will not work directly with Tesla
Service to cover the cost of repair or replacement of your glass. In this case, you may end up
having to pay out of pocket and submitting a claim with your insurer directly for reimbursement."

I just got a quote on a 2022 Tesla S for $785.00 from Safelite
AutoGlass. To be fair, the windshield has all sort of options on it
that the Camry most likekly doesn't have- Solar Coated, 3Rd Visor
Band, soundproofing, Rain/Light Sensor, Heated glass Wiper Park, Lane
Departure Warning System, so I'd expect it to be more.

It does, but for an insurance company it's the bottom line dollar that matters. True they are
complex beasts but still, Tesla is marketing them as the car for the average citizen. Also repairs
after a minor accident in general are very expensive.

<https://www.businessinsider.com/why-tesla-cars-get-totaled-insurance-repair-costs-2023-6>

[Governor Swill]

Post by pothead
Tesla is marketing them as the car for the average citizen.

*laughs and points*

Swill
--
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate

Inflation is already at Fed target.

It is below the long term historical average.

Unemployment remains low at under 4%.

Fed cuts have not pushed us into a recession.

Interest rates remain in historical low range.

The housing market is hot.

Manufacturing is hot.

"Comeback in Factory Jobs Appears to Be for Real"
<https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-02-09/comeback-in-factory-jobs-appears-to-be-for-real>

"Unpacking the Boom in U.S. Construction of Manufacturing Facilities"
<https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-the-boom-in-us-construction-of-manufacturing-facilities>

Is manufacturing growing in the US?

"U.S. manufacturing growth outpaces the rest of the world

"It was negative for nearly the entire range, reaching a minimum of -8% in late 2021
before increasing to become positive in September 2022. In November 2022 it was 0.26%.
American manufacturing growth started outpacing the rest of the world's growth at the end
of last year for the first time in recent memory.Mar 7, 2023"
<https://www.axios.com/2023/03/07/us-manufacturing-growth-outpaced-world>

GO RFK!

Send money!

https://www.kennedy24.com

[Governor Swill]

Post by pothead
An example.
A windshield replacement for a Toyota Camry cost between $250 and $300 plus about $50 for labor.
<https://getjerry.com/questions/how-much-does-a-toyota-camry-hybrid-windshield-replacement-cost->
A windshield replacement for a Tesla cost between $1000 and $2500
<https://www.getexoshield.com/blog/tesla-windshield-replacement-cost>

Volume discount. There are a lot more Camry's than Teslas.

Swill
--
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate

Inflation is already at Fed target.

It is below the long term historical average.

Unemployment remains low at under 4%.

Fed cuts have not pushed us into a recession.

Interest rates remain in historical low range.

The housing market is hot.

Manufacturing is hot.

"Comeback in Factory Jobs Appears to Be for Real"
<https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-02-09/comeback-in-factory-jobs-appears-to-be-for-real>

"Unpacking the Boom in U.S. Construction of Manufacturing Facilities"
<https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-the-boom-in-us-construction-of-manufacturing-facilities>

Is manufacturing growing in the US?

"U.S. manufacturing growth outpaces the rest of the world

"It was negative for nearly the entire range, reaching a minimum of -8% in late 2021
before increasing to become positive in September 2022. In November 2022 it was 0.26%.
American manufacturing growth started outpacing the rest of the world's growth at the end
of last year for the first time in recent memory.Mar 7, 2023"
<https://www.axios.com/2023/03/07/us-manufacturing-growth-outpaced-world>

GO RFK!

Send money!

https://www.kennedy24.com

[Mitchell Holman]

Post by pothead

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric
vehicles to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In
other words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why
even in what would be considered a minor crash, the insurance
companies are totaling the cars instead of repairing them.

Ditto for any expensive car.

So?

[Coal power]

Post by Mitchell Holman

Post by pothead

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric
vehicles to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In
other words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why
even in what would be considered a minor crash, the insurance
companies are totaling the cars instead of repairing them.

Ditto for any expensive car.
So?

You didn't think that through at all.

An expensive ICEV may be totaled and paid out by the insurance
company, but it will quickly be snapped up and transported to
Mexico where it will be stripped down and repaired. Some of the
shops down there are quite advanced when it comes to automotive
repairs.

An expensive BEV, inappropriately called an EV by the media and
most climate idiots, can again be repaired by shops over the
border but it takes a bit longer due to parts and technology
reloads.

Some are better than others. After repairs, both types will be
sold for close to used US market value and visually you will
never see the difference.

[Scout]

Post by pothead

Post by NoBody
On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:54:28 -0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.

They're no good in the cold now they're no good in the heat. In other
words they're no good.

And they are difficult and extremely expensive to repair which is why even in what would be
considered a minor crash, the insurance companies are totaling the cars
instead of repairing them.

Just wait until they are banned from parking garages due to their fire
hazard and weight.

That should really make them really popular in an urban setting

[Dimitris Tzortzakakis]

Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://jalopnik.com/its-too-hot-for-evs-to-work-right-1850663950
The heat wave affecting much of the U.S. may be causing electric vehicles
to lose nearly a third of their range.
We already knew electric vehicles don’t do so well when it gets really
cold outside. Well, apparently they don’t really like extreme heat either.
According to Automotive News, the recent heat wave across much of the
Southern and Western U.S. has brought their range issue to the forefront.
A Seattle-based EV battery and range analytics company called Recurrent
has reportedly tested thousands of vehicles in various weather conditions.
It found that many vehicles experienced “significant declines” in their
range as temperatures rose. Some apparently suffered a 31 percent drop
when temps got about 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That is less than ideal. At
cooler temperatures, the outlet reports that the range loss wasn’t as
high. There was an average of 5 percent reduction at 90 degrees and 2.8
percent at 80, so it’s definitely not linear.
Auto News says that in order to calculate these average temperatures,
Recurrent used a blend of data from the 17,000 vehicles the company keeps
track of. This data includes 65 EVs and plug-in hybrid models that include
mainstays like Tesla’s entire lineup, the Chevy Bolt EV, Hyundai Konda,
Nissan Leaf, Ford F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E.
Unfortunately, we don’t know which models did the worst in terms of range
loss. However, Recurrent did say that all four of Tesla’s vehicles had the
smallest range degradation, but they also had the widest gap between their
real-world range and the EPA’s estimates. Part of the reason for their
resistance to range loss may be because of their heat pumps, Recurrent’s
CEO Scott Case told AutoNews. They’re apparently much more efficient at
cooling than standard automotive air conditioners.
The outlet also spoke with Greg Less, the technical director of the
University of Michigan Battery Lab. He explained that range decline from
heat has its roots in battery chemistry.
“Once you’re above [104 degrees Fahrenheit] you start to have a breakdown
of the passive emission layer on the anode, and that breakdown will then
cause consumption of the liquid electrolyte, which will shorten the
lifetime of your battery,” Less told the outlet.
Luckily for EV owners, he doesn’t think the excessive heat will damage EV
batteries long term. That’s because they aren’t always driven in 100+
degree weather, and EVs have a fairly robust system to cool batteries.
From what Less says, it sounds like high temperatures aren’t the direct
cause of range degradation. It’s got more to do with the fact they use
more electricity to run stuff in that sort of weather.
“You’re running the fan harder, you’re running the refrigerant faster. All
of these things take more electricity,” Less said to Auto News. “So that’s
going to reduce the range.”
if the EVs are our best hope for the climate change, we're screwed!